John Catsimatidis on Donald Trump, Immigration, and New York Republicans

The New York Editorial Board's interview with businessman John Catsimatidis.

John Catsimatidis — a businessman, Republican, political donor, radio host and station owner, 2013 candidate for New York City mayor, Donald Trump ally, and (former) Curtis Sliwa employer — spoke with The New York Editorial Board on the morning of December 11, 2025. (photo via Red Apple Group)

Participating journalists: Nicole Gelinas, Josh Greenman, Alyssa Katz, Ben Smith, Liena Zagare.

Catsimatidis was joined by Richard Weinberg, a former judge and current radio commentator on 77 WABC, the station owned by Catsimatidis’ Red Apple Media.

Full Transcript

Ben Smith
Thank you guys for taking the time to do this. [Introductions, concluding with Nicole Gelinas of Manhattan Institute and the New York Times.]

John Catsimatidis
Are things getting any better there [at the New York Times]?

Ben Smith
We’re on the record.

John Catsimatidis
I don’t wanna get you in trouble. I mean, look, I was very good friends with Arthur Sulzberger. And we always used to get together, and I thought there was more common sense those days.

Josh Greenman
What do you think about the role [The New York Times Editorial Board] played or didn’t play in the mayoral race?

John Catsimatidis
The truth? We weren’t paying attention to them. I mean, did they finally say — where’d they go? Cuomo?

Josh Greenman
They kinda went anti-Mamdani, I think, right? In the primary they were anti-Mamdani.

Richard Weinberg
In the primary, they were anti-Mamdani. They said he wasn’t experienced and qualified to do the job. November, I don’t remember them saying anything. I think they started saying they weren’t gonna have anything to do with local politics.

John Catsimatidis
Everybody was looking towards me on that mayoral race with Curtis [Sliwa]. We had zero control over Curtis. Curtis was off on his own.

Josh Greenman
Did you try?

John Catsimatidis
He doesn’t talk to us. You know, Sid [Rosenberg] and me, which are the big political guys, I guess, and let alone… Greg Kelly’s a big political guy and Dominic Carter — I mean, we got everybody.

The president originally said he thought that was the best way to go. He told me.

Josh Greenman
What was the best way to go?

John Catsimatidis
Go with Cuomo.

Josh Greenman
When was that?

John Catsimatidis
Months ago. One or two months before it happened. And I took the position of “Anybody but Mamdani.” You know? And I said to Curtis, “If you’re showing progress, we’re gonna be with you.” You know? Show that you have the ability to win. And I said the same thing to Andrew.

The anatomy of what the heck happened, right?

Nicole Gelinas
Do you think there should’ve been a Republican primary?

John Catsimatidis
I think, if you go back long enough, if I thought this mess would’ve happened, I would’ve run. But everybody thought Eric Adams was a sure thing. In a traditional Democratic city, where did Mamdani come from? You know — lots of rumors around that a lot of foreign money was involved. Probably was.

Ben Smith
Do you have some evidence of that? That’s quite a thing to say.

John Catsimatidis
Are you saying there’s no doubt about it or are you saying you don’t think so?

Josh Greenman
Well, you made the assertion.

John Catsimatidis
How naïve are you?

Josh Greenman
You made the assertion, so what’s the evidence?

John Catsimatidis
I apologize for saying that, but, you know, this is a truth room. And I’m giving you my opinion.

Alyssa Katz
I will say the New York Post attempted to make the case, and I think came up extremely short. I think that covered it.

John Catsimatidis
The case was that if there’s foreign money involved, and he didn’t know about it, or it couldn’t be proven, there was no case. OK? I’m just telling you facts..

Alyssa Katz
By that standard, Eric Adams had significant foreign money in his campaign.

John Catsimatidis
But that’s nickels and dimes compared to this guy.

Alyssa Katz
I don’t think there’s evidence of that.

John Catsimatidis
I’m telling you reality, all right? In my opinion.

Nicole Gelinas
Cuomo raised a lot of money and the money didn’t help Cuomo. So Mamdani had a connection to the voters.

John Catsimatidis
Cuomo ran a terrible campaign. He felt at the beginning of the primary — So that was one of the reasons I didn’t run because I’m not gonna run against Eric Adams. You know? He was gonna win in the normal course of business. Mamdani came out of nowhere. He went from 1% to 40%.

Ben Smith
Just to go back, how close did you come to running? Did you cut ads? Did you think about details?

John Catsimatidis
No, no, no, no.

Alyssa Katz
Yeah, and you just said that you would’ve run. How would you have beat Mamdani?

John Catsimatidis
Well, no, no, this is pre-Mamdani.

Josh Greenman
What’s the profile of a Republican message that could beat him and keep Cuomo out?

John Catsimatidis
Well, don’t forget — I’m not necessarily a Republican. I was a Bill Clinton Democrat. Bill Clinton couldn’t get a nomination right now. You know? I believe in common sense. I believe in common sense, no matter what you do in life. Whether you wanna put a Democratic word on your head, or a Republican word on your head, and that’s what it comes down to.

Ben Smith
This is a city that elects Republican mayors, that elected Rudy, elected Bloomberg.

John Catsimatidis
I ran last time [in 2013] as a Republican/Liberal. And I had the Liberal Party nomination. And my mistake, I was urged — the Republicans were pushing me to pull out because of Lhota. The Liberals were telling me, “Stay in, stay in, stay in.” And in retrospect, you never know. Maybe I should have stayed in.

Ben Smith
But do you think there’s something wrong with the Republican Party that there aren’t a bunch of good candidates?

John Catsimatidis
No, they don’t have the ability to raise enough money. I would say, the decent Republican candidates, unless they put up their own money like Bloomberg — he looked at it as an alternative to the Democratic line….

Josh Greenman
But there were millions in Super PAC dollars supporting Cuomo’s campaign, so why wouldn’t some of those millions follow along —

John Catsimatidis
But if you don’t spend it wisely, if you let the consultant spend it for you, then you’re in deep crap, you know? A lot of the people that gave Cuomo money felt it wasn’t spent wisely.

Nicole Gelinas
So who is responsible for building a Republican Party infrastructure in New York State and New York City, where we would have a bigger field of potential candidates and raise money?

John Catsimatidis
Well, the last decent governor we had for Republicans was George Pataki. And he was a very, very decent person, liked by both sides. And he’s still a decent person. I jokingly said to him, “Let’s run one more time.”

But New York has changed. In the last five years, however you want to say, we’ve been migrated, invaded, or whatever you wanna say. Of the all the migrants that came in that voted in the last election—

Josh Greenman
How did migrants vote in the last election?

John Catsimatidis
You ask, you tell, you find out. What do you think?

Josh Greenman
Put something behind that —

John Catsimatidis
What do you think?

Josh Greenman
I’m asking you.

John Catsimatidis
What do I think? I think more people voted than should be voting.

Alyssa Katz
What’s your evidence of that?

John Catsimatidis
Listen, I grew up on the streets. I’m a street guy. I get the buzz.

You wanna know the truth? That’s the truth. You wanna say, “Where’s the evidence?” You’re not gonna find evidence, OK?

Richard Weinberg
The demographics in this town totally changed. You have about a million people of Asian or Muslim background, OK? So that changed it. So the old days where you had a balanced ticket of an Irishman, an Italian, and a Jew — those days are gone, OK? So the demographics have changed. So yes, why you’re not getting a Republican Party. It’s a different demographic.

Josh Greenman
Different demographics I understand. So it’s a different assertion then.

John Catsimatidis
I think there’s gotta be Voter ID. You want a fair and square election? I think there has to be Voter ID.

Alyssa Katz
The Board of Elections is equally divided between Democratic and Republican leadership and administration. The Republican Party is very hands-on with registration, with the polls, with supervising the polls. At what point would there be a point of failure in which you had somebody who is not a citizen, not eligible to vote, suddenly able to vote in that position?

John Catsimatidis
At the voting booth. At the voting booth.

Josh Greenman
Can I ask you, if somebody went on the air at 770 WABC—

John Catsimatidis
My hobby. My smallest company and my hobby.

Ben Smith
I thought supermarkets were your hobby?

John Catsimatidis
It’s on the way out.

Josh Greenman
….would you have no qualms about them going on and saying, “Migrants voted and that’s what swayed the election?”

John Catsimatidis
I have no qualms about saying that I think that, in my opinion, a lot of people voted that shouldn’t have voted.

Ben Smith
But maybe to get back, like Judge, you were saying there’s a lot of Asian immigrants in New York. A lot of Asian immigrants to New York, for instance, many of whom voted for Trump. And I guess, I think the question Nicole was trying to get at is, why can’t the Republican Party on a local level seem to be competitive with voters who I think are pretty open to voting for the Republicans?

John Catsimatidis
What is the registration between Republicans and Democrats?

Ben Smith
That’s like 6 to 1, right? It’s overwhelmingly Democratic.

Alyssa Katz
Well, and a lot of people are registering with neither party.

John Catsimatidis
A lot of business people that want influence, they give to where the influence counts. Business people try to be smart, and they’re not gonna — you know, if you go back and check the rolls of how many checks Donald Trump gave to Democrats — you know, a lot.

Richard Weinberg
Why don’t you take a look at the City Council. Look at the demographic of the City Council. That’ll tell you a lot where the city is going.

Nicole Gelinas
But isn’t the Republican Party responsible for reaching out to the new demographics just as they did with the Irish, Italian, and Jewish—

Richard Weinberg
Absolutely correct, but to John’s point, this is overwhelmingly a Democratic state. You have pockets where you have Republican strength. That’s Nassau and that’s Suffolk and maybe a few places upstate. It’s still true that if you wanna win the governorship you have to win somewhere between 30% to 34% in the city, OK, if you’re gonna be a Republican. That’s why Zeldin failed to do that. So the demographics are against you, you have a changing demographic. Look who’s getting elected to the state legislature, the Assembly, the Senate, certainly the City Council.

Not only you’re looking at the demographics but you’re looking at the ideology. The ideology is far left, and remember, John always introduced me on the show, I’m the house Democrat. David Paterson and I are house Democrats. I’m still a Democrat.

John Catsimatidis
Common-sense Democrats.

Richard Weinberg
But the point is, the Democratic Party’s under siege. It’s being taken over by the DSA types and the Working Families Party. They drive the agenda, they win the primary, they’re better organized, they’re better funded? So the fight, frankly, in my humble opinion, for survival of the city, is you either have to win in the Democratic Party — the Republican Party’s not gonna be the savior of New York City.

Nicole Gelinas
So just give up on the Republican Party?

Richard Weinberg
I didn’t say that. But don’t count on them being the savior of the American election.

Josh Greenman
I’d like to bring this back to Mr. Catsimatidis.

If the theory is that the Democratic Party’s been taken over by the far left…So the idea is then, that theoretically creates a big opening for Republicans.

John Catsimatidis
I was a common-sense Democrat.

Josh Greenman
So what I’m trying to ask is: Sketch your profile of the Republican candidate who, if it’s a one-on-one race, can beat Zohran Mamdani. Who is that person? What does that person say? What is that message?

John Catsimatidis
Quality of life in New York. What do New Yorkers care about? They care about the quality of life.

Josh Greenman
And so that’s basically what Cuomo runs on, but he can’t win simply because Curtis was there?

John Catsimatidis
When I ran in 2013, what did I say? We want more affordable housing, but intelligent affordable housing. You wanna build the transit-oriented development, remember those words? You want build that affordable housing near subway stations where people can go to work. Right? You don’t wanna build it on Central Park South just to stick it up people’s behinds. And maybe not everybody should be in Manhattan. Maybe affordable housing should be in the outer boroughs, next to subway stations, next to train stations. And I really believe that. Uh, I believe that if Mamdani was smart — I mean, the art of the con, who was conning who at that press conference with President Trump and Mamdani?

Ben Smith
What do you think? Who was conning who?

John Catsimatidis
Well, I think that President Trump wanted something positive. He didn’t want to show that he’s gonna be negative, because cause he doesn’t wanna be negative. He loves New York. President Trump would give him $5 billion for affordable housing — like this. In my opinion. Like this! And you know what five billion means to the federal government? Chump change.

Ben Smith
Have you talked to Trump since that? Have you talked to him about that?

John Catsimatidis
Not specifically that. But Trump loves New York. And right now, if you check out my last interview with Jay Clayton, the U.S. Attorney, a couple of Sundays ago — Jay Clayton is Trump’s person here. And he wants to use whatever is necessary to maintain the quality of life.

And number two, my recommendation to President Trump — only a recommendation, it’s his decisions — is, let’s not cut off money from New York. Put in a monitor to give them money too so the money is not — how do you say it? — pissed away. The way that Manhattan Institute would spend it, you know what I mean? In a common sense way or whatever.

Nicole Gelinas
And how would the monitor be different from the normal checks and balances of government or Congress?

John Catsimatidis
Hopefully he’s not a crook! Look what happened in Minnesota. How does a billion dollars disappear? Let me ask you a question, the question I asked to somebody on the 5:00 show the other day — I want you all to do some soul searching and think about the amount of money that has been stolen or just gone nowhere. No proof! But the proof is getting developed. How much of the $2 trillion deficit went…. Just do some soul-searching guys. That’s all I ask.

Ben Smith
How are you thinking about the governor’s race — about Blakeman and Stefanik?

John Catsimatidis
I said to President Trump that you need a common-sense Republican to be able to beat Governor Hochul. And look, Governor Hochul still has a good chance only if she proves that she has the courage to have checks and balances on Mamdani. You know, you have three checks and balances here. You have the Speaker of the City Council, you have the Governor in Albany, and you have President Trump. Three different checks and balances. The socialists have created a terrorism campaign, where common-sense Democrats are scared of their own shadow. They’re scared to challenge them or come up with commonsense solutions, because if they challenge them, 10 seconds later, they have a primary with unlimited money from the Left.

Josh Greenman
So who, in your view, is a common-sense Republican candidate for governor?

John Catsimatidis
George Pataki. But he’s 80 years old.

Josh Greenman
Anyone who’s currently running or considering?

Ben Smith
When I hear you say that, I think you’re talking about Bruce.

John Catsimatidis
Bruce is a decent person. He would have a chance if he raises enough money. Stefanik is a very smart lady. As Trump would say, “Number one in her class in Harvard.” But she’s sometimes too tough. You need somebody with a little bit of love. A little bit of sympathy.

Ben Smith
During the Trump-Mamdani press conference, a reporter asked about things that Stefanik had said, and he said, “Well, I disagree with that, but she’s running for office.” I was curious what you made of that.

John Catsimatidis
I think she’d make a better, possibly, [House] speaker than take a chance on running for governor. Just my opinion.

Nicole Gelinas
Do you think we should have a primary, or do you think the party should get behind one candidate early?

John Catsimatidis
I think primaries are always good. Getting the truth out.

Nicole Gelinas
Do you expect anyone else to join the race?

John Catsimatidis
You never know. You might have a common-sense businessperson join the race.

Ben Smith
Are you thinking about it yourself?

John Catsimatidis
I wish I was 10 years younger. If I was 10 years younger, for sure.

Alyssa Katz
Well, you were just saying that someone with a little bit of love, a little bit of sympathy—

John Catsimatidis
I love people.

Alyssa Katz
I understand, but you’re in a party, and Stefanik is very much a face of the party. Where one of the big challenges with voters right now, who are not part of the base — the Republican brand itself right now is associated, for one thing, with not just aggressive immigration enforcement, but enforcement that is doing things like separating children and parents, and then sending them into detention where no one can even reach them. You have hundreds of habeas corpus petitions on people who’ve just been snatched off the streets and so on.

Richard Weinberg
Obama and Biden did do it.

Alyssa Katz
We had armored vehicles on Canal Street and raids on vendors. The promise was to target criminals, and the stats are showing that that’s not the focus.

John Catsimatidis
Let’s go back a year. It was in the newspapers. It was on our radio station. There’s a reason our radio station became number one. We tell the truth. The only way to get fired on our radio station is not tell the truth.

And I had that dinner just before the New York Economic lunch in New York, where Trump was there. And it was 20 of us in the room. It was at whatshisname’s home. Bridgehampton. The guy who’s commerce secretary.

Ben Smith
Lutnick.

John Catsimatidis
Lutnick. And, you know, and I know Trump for a long time, 45 years. And he knows I have no axe to grind about anything. I really don’t. I just want the best for our city and our country. And he’s saying, “And we’re gonna deport 20 million people.”

Well, I had the balls to stand up….Because a lot of people are yes men around him. I said, “Mr. President” — and I always call him Mr. President because I respect his position and I respect him — “We’re not gonna do that.”

He looks at me, “What do you mean we’re not gonna do that?”

“We’re not gonna do that. Why don’t we just get rid of all the criminals first and make a determination afterwards?”

It was in the papers. And two weeks later, when he had the New York Economic lunch, what did he say? “…We’re gonna get rid of all the criminals.”

Josh Greenman
So what do you think of what’s happened on the ground?

John Catsimatidis
I think ICE and whoever have exceeded their authority.

Alyssa Katz
So what should change?

John Catsimatidis
I think the bad criminals, not the people that jaywalked, not the people that hustled pocketbooks on the sidewalk. the bad criminals — do not pass go, do not collect $200, get them the hell out of here.

Josh Greenman
So what should the mayor’s posture be with respect to them?

John Catsimatidis
Cooperation with common-sense federal authorities.

Alyssa Katz
The law right now does not allow for cooperation—

John Catsimatidis
What law? Tell me.

Alyssa Katz
Sanctuary City law prohibits—

John Catsimatidis
Yeah, but Sanctuary City— I’ll let the judge answer that.

Richard Weinberg
That’s the biggest fraud in the world. There’s no such thing as a Sanctuary City. It’s totally unconstitutional. The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution is very, very clear, federal government immigration policy prevails. That they get away with this nonsense of Sanctuary Cities, counties or states, pure nonsense. It should be taken down. There’s an oath of office to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. So if you’re not cooperating with federal law enforcement, you should be removed from office.

Josh Greenman
But you just had Mr. Catsimatidis say they should cooperate in the case of serious criminals. You’re suggesting they should also cooperate in the case of the jaywalker, or no?

Richard Weinberg
He didn’t say that. He just said to you, “Serious criminals.” That’s what John just said.

John Catsimatidis
Right, serious criminals. You know, murderers, rapists.

Josh Greenman
Right. What I’m asking is suppose the federal government wants to go far beyond that.

John Catsimatidis
You know what Venezuela did, by the way? Do you know? They emptied out their hospitals and sent us all the sick and the kids — the kids were sitting next to our kids in schools. They emptied out their jails, sent them to us. I mean, why didn’t you attack Biden during that period of time? You guys didn’t. It’s a two-way conversation, OK?

Josh Greenman
But I’m trying to draw out what you just said, because suppose the federal government and ICE say, “Give us all of your rolls of every department because we want to go after all of the jaywalking undocumented immigrants.” You just said it’s not good to deport the jaywalkers. What should the posture of the city be then?

John Catsimatidis
Well, then I think that what I would do if I was mayor, or if I was whatever — I would expose that. I’d go to all the newspapers and say, “Look, we’re going to cooperate with the federal government on violent, violent, violent criminals.”

Josh Greenman
And you would not cooperate in the other cases?

John Catsimatidis
No, I’m not gonna cooperate on jaywalkers. I’m not gonna cooperate on nannies.

Josh Greenman
What about the Supremacy Clause?

John Catsimatidis
You want your nanny taken away? How many nannies are legally in New York?

Nicole Gelinas
Does that mean people who have been convicted of a violent felony, or also people accused of a violent felony?

John Catsimatidis
That means people that you have strong belief they’re violent killers.

Liena Zagare
I have a question about the incoming administration. Is there anything on Mr. Mamdani’s agenda that you think would be good for New York City?

John Catsimatidis
Well, if he would be smart and cooperate with Trump, affordable housing in the outer boroughs near the transportation. Transport-oriented affordable housing. But these people have to go to work. Now let me ask you another silly question that was asked of me on NY1. Because I’ve gone on with Errol [Louis] a few times. And I also had the Secretary of HUD on my show. Very nice guy. How many people in NYCHA are paying rent? Do you know?

Josh Greenman
I mean, I know that there’s a big problem with people not paying.

John Catsimatidis
How many? I think it’s 60% don’t pay. You think I’m close?

Josh Greenman
Yeah, probably.

John Catsimatidis
What do you do when 60% don’t pay? And you know — it makes them homeless. What do you do? At what point do you reach, pardon my language, the fuck-you level?

Alyssa Katz
NYCHA does frequently — they have a whole procedure and they do take tenants to housing court—

John Catsimatidis
60% don’t pay. OK, face reality.

Josh Greenman
So what would be the answer to that? It’s a good point. What’s the answer to that?

John Catsimatidis
I don’t know. OK? I’m not gonna lie to you. There’s got to be an answer. I mean are these people that are migrants that just came here to eat our lunch? I made this speech in Europe last week, or not last week — on European television. I mean, Europe was on the edge of destruction. Tell them what our discussion was.

Richard Weinberg
The EU just announced they’re gonna start fining member countries who don’t take in migrants. OK? And the numbers are staggering. And what you have is you have a cultural invasion. And you have people coming into Europe who don’t want to assimilate, who don’t want to take the common shared values of the countries. They want to change the host countries. You have the same phenomenon coming on in the United States of America. You have the tribalism, you have the cultism. That’s a big threat to us.

John Catsimatidis
That’s what Biden did to us.

Richard Weinberg
That’s the national unity problem. And that’s going to be the future of America, and maybe the loss of Europe. Let me ask you a question, since you’re pretty good at depositions.

You have Mamdani, and he’s a declared democratic socialist. He’s an Islamist sympathizer. He wants to get rid of the [NYPD’s] Critical Response Team. He wants to get rid of the gang database. He’s made it very, very clear that he doesn’t want to cooperate with federal authorities. He announces that he wants to not do the homeless sweeps for the tent cities.

Now, you take all of that together, and don’t you believe that serious people who love this city, this state and this country, want to sit back and ask the question, “Where are we going?” What happens when you have tent cities? You have an increase in public health crises. You have diseases that you haven’t known for decades resurrect themselves. You have the human wealth being destroyed. You have human waste on the streets.

Josh Greenman
So, if you’re asking him a question, the answer is yes—

Richard Weinberg
But I’m saying, so, what would you do about that when you have an upcoming mayor who says that?

John Catsimatidis
I was vice chairman of Ellis Island. OK? Bill Fugazy was chairman, Lee Iacocca was honorary chairman. Immigration, yes. Invasion, no.

I mean, all we want— Let me tell you something. My father came in 1949. My two grandfathers came in 1930.

Josh Greenman
What percentage of New York City was foreign-born back then, do you know?

John Catsimatidis
OK. A lot. A large percentage. But it was the American way of life. Not coming here to change it. They came here to work 80 hours a week and have a better life for their children.

Richard Weinberg
And to be Americans.

John Catsimatidis
These people are coming here to change our way of life.

Alyssa Katz
How do you know that? Again, I keep coming back to: what is the evidence?

John Catsimatidis
Listen, you could sit there and give me that discussion all day long. But you know what the end of the day is? The end of the day your kids and grandkids are gonna be in deep shit. OK?

Nicole Gelinas
But doesn’t your argument come back to how do you beat Mamdani at the ballot box?

John Catsimatidis
You wanna hear Joe Biden? Hold on.

[Plays audio recording of Joe Biden]: The trouble is that the president’s proposals are not big enough to deal with the problem. We think we should do more to stem the flow of drugs across our borders, and we think we should go one step further. Let’s go after the drug lords where they live with an international strike force. There must be no safe haven for these narco-terrorists, and they must know it….

John Catsimatidis
If you want a copy of it.

Ben Smith
This isn’t a Mamdani campaign spokesperson — we’re really interested in how you’re seeing the city.

John Catsimatidis
Me, I can take care of myself. You know what I used to say on the radio? I’ll take a Rocky Colavito bat, which was like six feet big, and whack them over the head. I came from 135th street. But I worry about my kids and grandkids.

And I support the president 100, 110%, on knocking out those stupid boats coming with drugs to kill our kids. OK? A hundred thousand kids and people died in 2024. If it wasn’t a hundred, it was 88,000.

Richard Weinberg
You’re not including the people who haven’t died who are zombies.

John Catsimatidis
And China is feeding the Mexican cartels. OK? And Venezuela, who’s feeding them? Maybe Iran. My intelligence sources — because we have intelligence sources that drop dimes in my ear, OK? How do you become number one? There was Iranian terrorists on some of those boats. OK? Do I prove it? No. I’m just telling you…

All I care about is the security of the United States of America and the security of our state and the security of our city. That’s all I care about.

Ben Smith
Just because we have limited time—

John Catsimatidis
When we run out of coffee we have limited time.

Ben Smith
I realize this is a hard pivot, but can you talk to us about the grocery business in New York? What you’re seeing? Just like you’re in so much contact with regular people in that space. What are you learning? What are you seeing?

John Catsimatidis
We’re gonna be out of it sooner or later. Because our supermarket businesses is being subsidized by our other companies.

Ben Smith
Why?

John Catsimatidis
We’re not making any money. The rents are too high. The shoplifting is too high. Nobody gets arrested.

Ben Smith
It sounds like the Mamdani Plan — government subsidized supermarkets.

John Catsimatidis
People get arrested — the joke sometimes is they get arrested 150 times, and while the cops are still filling out the paperwork, the crooks get to go home. The crooks from New Jersey come to New York to commit their crime.

Ben Smith
What do they steal?

John Catsimatidis
They steal whatever they steal. Listen, they steal whatever they steal. If they get caught, they still go home for dinner.

Josh Greenman
Right near me, a Lidl just opened. Very low prices. There are bunch of Aldi’s opening around there.

John Catsimatidis
We’ll teach those foreigners a lesson. We’ll show them what happens!

Josh Greenman
No, no, but as someone who’s in the grocery business — do you think Gristedes is as high-quality and as low-cost as it could and should be?

John Catsimatidis
You wanna know reality? And I’ll tell you my yelling and screaming at the staff meetings at Gristedes. All I wanna do is break even. We’re fully unionized. The unions in the grocery area have done zero to protect their members. Zero. We’re fully unionized, and I respect our people. We’ve always been fully unionized. And they’ve done zero to protect us against the other ones. And everybody has come in. Every drugstore has groceries. Amazon, FreshDirect, the competition has just gone crazy. You can’t be cheap enough in New York and Manhattan. We sell convenience right now.

You know what the rents are for these stores? Between the rent cost, between the highest electricity in the country, OK? The vendors, they don’t wanna come in and deliver. Why? They’re either gonna get tickets…. The cost of delivery to Manhattan stores is unbelievable. So when I laugh about Lidl or other national chains, is they haven’t learned their lesson in Manhattan.

Nicole Gelinas
What would your advice be to Mamdani?

John Catsimatidis
Buy Gristedes.

Nicole Gelinas
Can he lower grocery costs though?

John Catsimatidis
Somebody’s gonna pay. It’s either the taxpayer pays, and it gets lost in action.

Ben Smith
Right now it’s coming out of your pocket more or less?

I’m trying to think about the scheme where you sell Mamdani Gristedes. This is, like, a great story.

John Catsimatidis
Absolutely. You can see me and Mamdani shaking hands.

Nicole Gelinas
Can he lower grocery costs though?

John Catsimatidis
Yeah, if you don’t charge — if you can get the stuff delivered to the stores without getting 11 tickets on the wholesaler’s truck, you know?

Nicole Gelinas
So how do you do that? You need a delivery bay on the street, and you would pay for the delivery bay? I mean, how would that work?

John Catsimatidis
Maybe there should be some exemption hours, or that truckers could come in from 5:00 in the morning to 8:00 in the morning without getting abused or something. Look, Randy Mastro, first deputy mayor, he has common sense. But there’s nobody else with common sense.

Josh Greenman
If you say Gristedes is losing money right now. What is Gristedes worth if you tried to sell?

John Catsimatidis
Well, it’s making money— Our overhead is tremendous.

Josh Greenman
But, I mean, if you were on the market trying to get someone to buy it?

John Catsimatidis
You know, it’s close to breaking even, but not— You know, nickels and dimes. The overhead that we have to run — so if a big chain bought it or independents bought it, then they know how to make their living.

Ben Smith
I’m looking at the photos over your head of gas stations and obviously you’re in the energy business in a really big way. But better business than the grocery store?

John Catsimatidis
Country Fair makes a lot of money in Western New York. These are convenience stores. Convenience stores, gas stations. Red Apple, Kwik Fill.

Ben Smith
What did you make of Kathy Hochul — You saw she approved this natural gas pipeline and some Democrats are upset about it.

John Catsimatidis
Well, there was a deal made with Trump. I don’t know if you know about it? On the windmill, which is the biggest fraud.

Hey, I’m not a Republican that doesn’t believe in environment. I’m an environmentalist too. We’re destroying our shorelines. Those windmills are good for five to ten years, then they fall apart. And when they fall, we’re dealing with the government of Norway. It’s the government of Norway that’s sucking us out.

Richard Weinberg
You know the impact on the environment by the way of these windmills?

John Catsimatidis
Tremendous impact on the environment. And besides killing the whales, they killed our ostriches up in Canada, because they’re mean-spirited people. I hate mean-spirited bureaucrats.

Josh Greenman
So, solar’s growing really fast in Texas, and other forms of energy are growing real fast.

John Catsimatidis
Sure. But it shouldn’t be government subsidized. You own a home and you could spend $2, and you think you’re gonna save money?

Josh Greenman
Should any energy be government subsidized?

John Catsimatidis
I think nuclear going forward in the future, to get it started, because I think that’s the only substitute over the next 10, 20 years. As a getting it started situation. My son was in SMRs — small modular reactors. The same nuclear reactors that are reliable in submarines and aircraft carriers. You take them and recreate them for land use. They’re safe, they’re efficient, and they’re operating for 60 years, safely.

Ben Smith
Are you investing in that? Is that a business you’re going to get in?

John Catsimatidis
It’s a subsidiary of our oil company. My son, besides being president, is chief investment officer. And my son has convinced me: the early settlers get shot.

In other words, the first guys in that business will go bankrupt, so we go in and buy in bankruptcy.

Ben Smith
That’s a really interesting investment thesis.

John Catsimatidis
How did I get the oil company? In bankruptcy. How did I get United Metro, our oil distribution business in Long Island? Bankruptcy. We saved the jobs, we redid the company, and we saved a lot of jobs.

Josh Greenman
Are you seeing effects of Trump’s tariffs in any of your businesses?

John Catsimatidis
No. I think the United States will have the best economy ever in 2026. I think Chairman Powell is playing politics and not lowering interest rates.

We’re in the real estate business. It’s one of our businesses, so many buildings we built. [Points to a picture on the wall.] That one in Florida we just opened.

That’s Coney Island. The first two buildings are built. We can build the other three, but I’m not sure I want to spend a billion dollars in New York right now. Until we know which way New York is going.

Alyssa Katz
Are you worried about climate effects? I mean, that area flooded terribly during Hurricane Sandy. How are these resilient?

John Catsimatidis
We built them to withstand winds of up to 175 miles an hour. The windows and things like that. We went down so far down we’re seeing 200 mile an hour winds, OK? And it’s right on the beach. New York is a beautiful climate nine months of the year, 10 months. You know, I walk along Coney Island, and the city’s spending a billion dollars on Coney Island to redo the boardwalks.

Josh Greenman
Do you like what’s happening to the casinos?

John Catsimatidis
Listen, let’s see what happens. I mean, how much blood do you wanna suck out of people’s blood. The old expression my parents used to use — I forget. Look, I guess the people that are gamblers, they’re either going to gamble with the people on the streets or they’re going to gamble in casinos.

Nicole Gelinas
Can New York be a more affordable city?

John Catsimatidis
If we do it right, yes. If I was mayor I would do a great job. And by the way, when I ran for mayor, I didn’t tell everybody how bad everybody else was. I just told them what I’m going to do instead of attacking everybody. I don’t believe in attack ads.

Josh Greenman
So what’s the way to make the city more affordable?

John Catsimatidis
You create affordable housing and work with the federal government that has an unlimited amount of money, and be able to do it. You’ve got to come up with a game plan. What do you do with the people that don’t wanna work and not pay rent? What do you do with them?

Nicole Gelinas
So Mamdani wants to raise taxes, both individuals and corporations.

John Catsimatidis
You know what the song we play at five o’clock? The Exodus.

Nicole Gelinas
Would you leave to avoid the tax?

John Catsimatidis
Well, eventually I would leave, but then I’m not leaving right now.

Nicole Gelinas
And where would you go?

John Catsimatidis
The Promised Land. Florida.

Let me give you some numbers so you guys know, in case you don’t know. 19,500,000 people in New York State. 23,700,000 people in Florida. Fifteen years ago, ten years, it was opposite.

You’re sitting here in New York City, between New York State and New York City, your budget right now is 360, 370 billion. The budget in Florida is 120 [billion]. Three to one. Pardon my language. Where’s the fucking money?

Ben Smith
They got a Republican candidate for governor of Florida who wants to stop New Yorkers from immigrating.

John Catsimatidis
He doesn’t want stupid people to come down.

Nicole Gelinas
So what would be your threshold for leaving? At what point would you say—

John Catsimatidis
I’ll tell you something. If I’m thinking I’m gonna die — I feel good right now. You know, my father lived to 94. How old did your father live to?

Richard Weinberg
My father was 95, 96. My mother lived to 104. I’m very careful with the bike lanes.

John Catsimatidis
You have to be very careful with those bike lanes.

If I think I’m gonna die in five years, or three years, or whatever, I’m gonna move to Florida. Why? Look at your estate tax. They suck your blood. And you know how much estate taxing they have in other states?

Nicole Gelinas
So, you’re more concerned about the estate tax than the real estate or earned income.

John Catsimatidis
And the quality of life. Look, I can take care of myself, but if I’m 87 years old, can I take care of myself? Maybe not.

Ben Smith
How old are you now?

John Catsimatidis
How old do you think I am?

Ben Smith
That’s a dangerous question.

John Catsimatidis
Pick a number, I don’t give a shit.

Nicole Gelinas
You were born in 1948.

John Catsimatidis
Class of ’48. Seventy-seven. Do I look OK for 77?

Josh Greenman
There was talk about you being part of maybe a group that might purchase some news property in New York, like the Daily News or something like that. Instead you’re in the radio business. What do you think of the information ecosystem in the city?

John Catsimatidis
Well, President Trump last night said CNN should be sold.

Ben Smith
Do you want to buy CNN?

John Catsimatidis
I would buy it if it’s the right deal, yes. I only buy right deals. I don’t pay retail.

Nicole Gelinas
So crime, we haven’t talked much about crime. Murders and shootings are near record lows.

John Catsimatidis
Well, there’s two things you have to look at. On crime, how much are they reporting and how much is actual?

Nicole Gelinas
When you have shoplifting, do you report every shoplifting incident to the police?

John Catsimatidis
We try, but nobody but I don’t think the police even takes it.

Josh Greenman
But murders is not a reporting issue. Murders are real, right?

John Catsimatidis
Yeah. Murders are real.

Listen, he was 15 years chief counsel for Peter Vallone as Speaker of the City Council.

Richard Weinberg
Nicole knows. We did Safe Streets, Safe City.

John Catsimatidis
And then 15 years on the [State] Supreme Court.

Richard Weinberg
We made the city safe. David [Dinkins] didn’t want to do it, Peter [Vallone] got it. We put together the deal with the City Council, which Peter ran. We got the legislature and the government to go along with it. He had a smart guy who was his deputy mayor, Judge Milt Mollen. And the fact is, we cut the deal, we made the city safe. So when Rudy came in as mayor, he had his army.

So the problem is you fight every day. And I’m telling you as a former assistant attorney general, as a former law clerk to a federal judge, as a judge myself, City Hall — you have to fight to keep the city safe every day. You have to call it out, you have to challenge it.

I’m a big fan, even though John doesn’t like the expression, I’m a big fan of the broken window theory. I think it absolutely works, it has historically worked. You go after small stuff so you don’t create a climate of lawlessness. What I’m desperately afraid of, when Mamdani talks nonsense, like not going after the tent cities. You’re gonna start having tent cities. You want to have a tent city right in front of Rockefeller Center, in front of the Christmas tree? You want to have it on the grounds of the Metropolitan Museum of Art? Is that what you wanna do? You want to have it on Sutton Place?

You need to get serious about protecting quality of life and public safety. If you don’t do that, there’s no moral authority of government to govern. The first obligation of government is to keep people safe. I’m not campaigning for a job at the Manhattan Institute, I’m just telling you it’s something I believe in. I’ve always believed in it. Empirical experience having been in this field for years. I ran the Midtown Community Court. I ran the Special Narcotics Court for the entire city. I know all about this quality of life stuff.

I’m desperately afraid that this guy is going to [inaudible] because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He’s a kid, he’s inexperienced, he’s an ideologue. He’s surrounding himself with very dangerous people. And I hope Jessica Tisch can bring him back to the center. Now, do I believe she can do that? I have my doubts because I don’t believe this kid is transactional the way usual politicians are. I think he’s an ideologue. He’s transactional to the extent that you will go along with what he wants to accomplish.

Nicole Gelinas
So why is he keeping Tisch?

Richard Weinberg
For cover. It’s the most obvious game.

John Catsimatidis
That’s the nicest way to say it. For cover.

Ben Smith
How long do you think she’s gonna stay in that job, John?

John Catsimatidis
I don’t know. I think, if he disbands — Tell them about the strategic task force. He’s going to tell you the truth, guys.

Richard Weinberg
So, this is your problem, you have a population of approximately one million Jews in this town. And historically, the Jewish community, whether they’re secular like me—you know, my view is for sects of Judaism, there’s Orthodox, Conservative, Reformed, Ralph Lauren Polo. I’m Ralph Lauren Polo, OK? And that is part of the culture that we were born with, is giving back, trying to make the world a better place.

So if you look around the cultural institutions, the hospitals, the charities, the universities. They give back, the Jewish community gives back. When the New York Jewish community starts being afraid that they can’t walk the streets, they can’t go to their synagogues, they can’t wear yarmulkes, they can’t identify—

John Catsimatidis
Exodus.

Richard Weinberg
When that happens and they start fleeing, the demographics are gonna change radically. And the people who support all of the social programs, all the welfare programs, all the good deeds, they’re gonna flee. And they’re gonna be replaced by whom and by what? By takers not givers.

John Catsimatidis
You know, with Ellis Island, they made my father’s brother sign that if he can’t pay the rent, they’re gonna pay it. Here, we can’t take care of the whole world.

Richard Weinberg
Part of the immigration law is that when you come in here, you’re not supposed to be a public charge. People forget that. You’re not supposed to be a public charge. So if you bring in the free lunch crowd and you lose the economic base and tax paying base — the people who create jobs, provide the services, give all this money to these great causes — what’s going to happen? Everybody assume that New York will be just fine. I’m much more pessimistic about that, ’cause I lived through the headlines in the papers, “Dave Do Something” and Dinkins did nothing. And Peter created Safe Street, Safe Cities and David ran for re-election saying it was his program.

Ben Smith
Final words, John: Long-term New York: optimistic, pessimistic?

John Catsimatidis
Right now, pessimistic until you bring some common sense back. Immigration, yes. Invasion, no. Bring in people that wanna work 80 hours a week. Don’t bring people that wanna live off the American citizens. Is that a good comment?

Nicole Gelinas
That’s a concrete immigration reform that you would support. What would that look like in practice? Interview people in their home countries and make sure they can support this?

John Catsimatidis
This was traditional, except it ran too slow. There was a waiting list of God knows how long. So, we want immigration. And remember back in the Ellis Island days or whatever, they said, “You know, we need 20,000 more carpenters in the United States. Bring in 20,000 carpenters.”

Josh Greenman
I have a question, though. I was in Sunset Park a month ago, which is heavily Muslim. You go to Jackson Heights—

John Catsimatidis
By the way, I don’t give a crap about Muslim or whatever. I’m the head of the Greek Orthodox Church of North America, the highest layperson—

Josh Greenman
What I’m asking you— If you go to these neighborhoods, do you think you’re surrounded by takers in these neighborhoods? This is my personal experience, I see people working quite hard in these neighborhoods.

John Catsimatidis
That’s fine. I like people that work hard.

Josh Greenman
Do you believe that the immigrants in New York these days are mostly takers?

John Catsimatidis
I believe in the people that are coming into New York that want to be takers, we shouldn’t take them.

Richard Weinberg
Do you know how it is by the way in Minneapolis in the state of Minnesota, in terms of welfare rolls and those who are self-sufficient? Take a look at that. Do some research on it. Look at the demographics. Everybody says, “Oh, the Somalian community is contributing a great deal.” No.

John Catsimatidis
You know the current investigation going on? You know the problem in Minnesota? It’s just as bad as New York.

Richard Weinberg
The problem is going to be everywhere. The problem is gonna be in California. The problem is gonna be in Maine. They’re all across the country.

John Catsimatidis
A lot of the blue states. Tell them what the problem is on these food stamps. SNAP.

Richard Weinberg
Food stamps are fraud. Medicare is a fraud. They have organized — The money’s flown out of Minneapolis, you know, overseas.

John Catsimatidis
And Albany is refusing to give the federal government information on the food stamp program.

Alyssa Katz
But right now, the USDA has threatened to cut off state governments from the food stamps, like imminently if they’re not handing over information. Are you in favor of that?

John Catsimatidis
I am in favor of food stamps in a legal procedure. In other words, people that really need it, not people that are defrauding.

Alyssa Katz
I’m sure you get food stamps at your grocery business. But what happens now if New York state gets cut off from food stamps?

John Catsimatidis
Let me ask you something. You know Donald Trump. You think if the federal government sat across the table from the state government and they cooperated with each other, Donald Trump would cut them off? No. It’s when the state government tells you, “Fuck you, we’re not gonna give you anything”—

Alyssa Katz
But why is it necessary to give this level of detailed information?

John Catsimatidis
Why not? It’s their money, the federal government’s money. If I was the federal government, I’m not going to give you money unless you show me how you’re going to spend it.

Alyssa Katz
There’s no regulation that demands this information.

John Catsimatidis
You grew up too rich. You know that? I grew up on 135th Street.

Josh Grenman
Nobody knows how anyone grew up here.

Alyssa Katz
My mom was a Holocaust refugee and my dad was an immigrant from Israel. He had very little money.

John Catsimatidis
Good. My mother was born in Constantinople, where when my mother was born there was three million Greeks and Orthodox in Constantinople. Now, there’s zero. 3,000. My mother went through the same thing.

Nicole Gelinas
Do you see a difference between immigrants and refugees? I mean, what should we do about it?

John Catsimatidis
I believe in immigration. I’m an immigrant. I believe in immigration. But I believe in immigration that they want to come in, work hard and be Americanized. What’s the other expression we use? Immigration without assimilation is called invasion.

Richard Weinberg
Otherwise, you’re gonna have warring tribes. You’re gonna have cults. Just look at it. It’s a nationwide phenomenon. It’s gone all over Europe. It’s a big threat.

John Catsimatidis
The Jews came in, they worked 90 hours a week. Like the Greeks worked 90 hours a week. Like the Italians worked 90 hours a week. We all worked hard.

Alyssa Katz
People now are also working hard and are also fleeing terrible situations.

Richard Weinberg
Well, but we can’t take everybody.

John Catsimatidis
We can’t take everybody. That’s what Ellis Island is for. We can’t take everybody.

Alyssa Katz
I know we’re prolonging things, but I do have to say, the Republican party for years blocked immigration reform.

John Catsimatidis
Don’t tie me to being a Republican. I’m a middle of the road, common-sense person, OK?

Alyssa Katz
We do not have common-sense immigration policy because Washington did not act.

Richard Weinberg
Obama had both houses of Congress, he had the presidency, what did he do about the immigration reform? As we say in my business, I rest my case.

Josh Greenman
And now Trump’s got it.

All right. Thank you.

John Catsimatidis
No, listen. I enjoyed this discussion.

Ben Smith
Thank you guys so much. This has been great.