Zohran Mamdani Interview Transcript

A transcript of The New York Editorial Board's interview with mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani.

Zohran Mamdani, a State Assembly Member representing the 36th District in Queens and a candidate in the June 2025 Democratic primary for Mayor, spoke with The New York Editorial Board on the morning of January 30, 2025. (photo by Juan Manuel Benítez)

Participating journalists: Juan Manuel Benítez, Nicole Gelinas, Josh Greenman, Christina Greer, Alyssa Katz, Ben Max, Akash Mehta, Harry Siegel, Ben Smith, Liena Zagare.

Full Transcript

Qualifications for Mayor / Management

Ben Max
Good morning. Thanks for being here. So would you tell us just very specifically what you think are two, maybe three, of the most important qualifications for being Mayor of New York City and how you meet those?

Zohran Mamdani
I think at its core, a mayor is a messenger, a delegate, a liaison. In my terms in the Assembly, I believe that I have lived up to those requirements, most especially through launching campaigns, often from scratch. Most notably, the “Fix the MTA” campaign, I don't think I need to explain why we called it that, where we won more than $100 million in increased subway service, bus service, a reduction in the fare hike, as well as New York City's first-ever free bus pilot.

And in doing those things, we delivered tangible benefits to working-class New Yorkers. Namely, putting tens of millions of dollars back in their pockets and seeing immense increases in ridership, up to 30% across those five bus routes, one in each borough as well as a significant decrease in assaults on bus operators, 38.9% across those routes. And an illustration of the fact that in a time of the climate crisis, we have a lot of options in front of us that can actually reduce a lot of the carbon emissions across our city, and one of them is when you make buses free. We saw that 11% of new riders got out of their cars or taxis they were taking and got onto public transit.

So I do believe that through my work in the Assembly, especially showcased with “Fix the MTA,” I’ve shown myself adept at the skills required. And I think of [Mayor] Michelle Wu in Boston in many ways as a model for the kind of work you do as a legislator, then becoming a mayor, and also speaking to the possibility of being a mayor at around the same age as her.

Josh Greenman
You used three words, but you didn't use the word manager. It's a huge government.

Zohran Mamdani
Yes, I think there is absolutely a necessity of competency and of being a competent manager, specifically. I also think that you need to understand where your knowledge goes up until and who you need to help you to go beyond that.

I have seen in previous mayoral administrations, across the ideological spectrum, examples that I would love to bring into my administration of how you can empower the people who know the most about the work that you're seeking to accomplish.

I think that it is especially critical in a time when we have a mayor who views himself as more of a monarch, as someone who must answer every question, who must decide every agency directive, who must be in the room deciding whether or not an elected official can even meet with that agency, that we have someone who will empower the New Yorkers who are the best and brightest of our city. And that we give them the authority to actually follow through on that mandate.

And furthermore, I do not believe that every single head of an agency needs to align with me 100% across every single issue, but rather specifically on that issue of that agency. For example, I'm a big critic, often, of Michael Bloomberg’s mayoralty. I also look with deep admiration at his empowering of Janette Sadik-Khan to be the head of the Department of Transportation, and how that reshaped the streetscape across New York City. And I think that those are the kinds of examples. Those are also the kinds of individuals that I think we have to bring into the next administration, as opposed to people that you want to give patronage to at every single turn.

Ben Smith
Have you talked to Janette Sadik-Khan?

Zohran Mamdani
I haven't, but I hope that by mentioning her here, she will reach out.

Obstacles to Progressive Leadership / Working with Albany

Akash Mehta
I want to ask about one of those past administrations. Bill de Blasio came into office as an unlikely progressive insurgent telling a “tale of two cities.” He had major accomplishments, but the central problem that he set out to solve, income inequality, by some metrics didn't budge over the course of his tenure. What do you think prevented his administration from more fully transforming the city, and how would you overcome the same obstacles?

Zohran Mamdani
To spell out some of the successes that you are alluding to, I think that standing up universal pre-K and the beginnings of 3-K is an incredible accomplishment. Because alongside my very clear and explicit platform of freezing the rent, making buses fast and free and providing universal child care — whether your child is six weeks or five years — is a belief that government can and must do big things. That it must show itself able to intervene in the lives of working-class people and provide them with relief at the very least.

And I think that those accomplishments of the de Blasio administration with universal pre-K, also with multiple rent freezes, did provide that to millions of New Yorkers. And we're talking about an expense when it comes to child care that can be $20,000-$25,000.

In the broader analysis of income inequality across New York City, I think that some of this also has to do with being mayor at the time of a governor [Andrew Cuomo] who was hell-bent on a very different kind of politics. A governor who chases press releases and publicity more than the actual results of those programs, and one who for many years refused to even acknowledge that the state ran the MTA. And I think that some of those structural factors do create limitations.

And I also think that there were some approaches in the de Blasio administration that I did disagree with. I say that as someone, sitting in front of incredible food, who was on a 15-day hunger strike protesting the de Blasio administration's approach to debt forgiveness for thousands of working-class taxi drivers. And I’m proud that after that two-and-a-half-week strike which had already followed civil disobedience of myself and five other elected officials being arrested outside of City Hall, which had already followed 45 days of consecutive protests, which had already followed years of the New York Taxi Workers Alliance fighting for this issue, the de Blasio administration did change its course and we secured more than $450 million in debt relief.

So I think that obviously there are things that could have been done differently. I also think that there are a lot of things to acknowledge and appreciate, especially in light of the administration we've had since.

Josh Greenman
What’s the answer to the question of how to do better than he did? Is there an answer to the question about how to do better in closing the income gap specifically, to overcome the obstacles that he did encounter?

Zohran Mamdani
I think part of it is expanding the approach and I think that’s why you see that our campaign is built around multiple prongs — ways that we would intervene. I think acknowledging the successes there and trying to go beyond that. And also I think that given how much New York City is a creature of the state, I think my record in Albany and my ability to build coalitions across the ideological spectrum is one that would serve our city well in securing a lot of the support necessary to enact multiple parts of this agenda.

Ben Smith
Do you think you’d be able to do that with ‘Governor [Mike] Lawler’?

Zohran Mamdani
I think that there’s possibility in every politician. I think there are some that are much more difficult, especially when they are those outside of the Democratic Party.

Ben Smith
How would you approach him?

Zohran Mamdani
‘Governor Lawler’?

Ben Smith
Yes.

Zohran Mamdani
You know, I think ‘Governor Lawler’ — let me say Congressmember Lawler. We, the two of us, have been confused often because we came into Albany at the same time and both had beards. And there was one point, actually, where another member spoke to me for five minutes thinking that I was Mike Lawler.

Look, Lawler is a member of a party whose presidential nominee was elected, and part of the reason he was elected was on a message of cheaper groceries.

Now, I think there are absolutely horrific and heinous things about Donald Trump and Donald Trump’s platform that we need to fight at every point. And I also think what we need to do is, in the ways of Bernie Sanders, challenge his party to deliver on some of the things that they are lying about directly to working-class voters.

I am a candidate sitting in front of you who has the only plan in this race to reduce the price of groceries. And I think one example of this is putting it forward and saying, if you care so deeply about cheaper groceries, if you care so deeply about providing relief to working-class people, why will you not support the only plan here that we can actually guarantee lower prices? And do so by removing profit out of the equation, do so by actually passing on the savings of rent and property tax directly to customers, and do so through a pilot program of one store in each borough that builds on the feasibility study that was done in Chicago and builds on the successes we’ve seen in actually in Republican states. I think it's time also for Democrats to challenge Republicans on what they say that they believe. Because what we've allowed them to do is set the message and then try and point to statistics as to how it's actually insincere, instead of challenging them.

Alyssa Katz
We have Governor Hochul for now. We have a Democratic legislature for now, that you are in. You also have a legislature and a governor who have really given New York City a raw deal recently. Hochul, I think, is just afraid of New York City — with her reversal on congestion pricing, short-changing the city on environmental bond funds, there's a whole host of ways in which New York City is just not getting a fair deal. So what have you learned by being [in Albany] about what it will take to actually build a true coalition at a time when you have a lot of members who are just trying to protect their seats and a governor who is terrified of losing more seats as well? How do you begin that work as a mayor?

Zohran Mamdani
I want to go back to the “Fix the MTA” campaign as an example of this, because I think that it illustrates the exact question you're asking. If you only want to organize with individuals who are like-minded on every single issue, you are not going to win, because we do not have a legislature that reflects any kind of ideological dominance or even a progressive bent.

What you need to do, in fact, is ask every single person, even those that have previously disagreed with you, to see if there’s any world in which they would support this. I stood side by side with people that I had endorsed primary challenges against in prior years. And I went to those individuals and asked them, “don’t think about me. Think about what this bus could mean in your district.” And I made it clear that what I was asking for in this moment was simply adherence to the vision of this proposal, not anything beyond that in the same way that this campaign is not asking for purity across the board from everyone who supports it, that they are lined up with every single idea and they agree with me on every single thing, but rather that they are aligned on one central message: That New York City should be more affordable.

Alyssa Katz
That’s fine insofar as your own proposals go. But what about the bread-and-butter budget issues and mayoral control [of city schools] — there’s a lot that, as you know, a mayor really relies on Albany for authority to do. And the folks in Albany use it as a kind of hostage-taking, as an opportunity to really squeeze that mayor. So how do you break through all of that to to actually build power that, honestly, the mayor doesn’t have?

Zohran Mamdani
I think the first thing you do is that you actually try. There are many years when Eric Adams has been the mayor where his attempts at winning over the legislature have started so late that we are starting to wonder whether they even started at all. And I say this as someone who is looking forward to “Tin Cup Day” next week, where as someone serving on the cities committee, I will have three minutes to question our mayor.

But you know, the mayor may not have technical power in Albany, but the mayor has what has been described as the second largest bully pulpit in America. Our mayor has used that bully pulpit to come to Albany on an annual basis to seek, primarily, rollbacks of civil rights protections for Black and brown New Yorkers. That’s what our mayor has focused his energy on. And by and large, he has been successful.

And yet, as we have seen, no matter the year, no matter the extent of that rollback, New Yorkers do not actually feel a tangible benefit from it. So what I would say to you is that I would use the power of that pulpit to, every single day, make the case as to why our agenda needs to be enacted in Albany.

When I think about de Blasio and Cuomo, that was a very difficult relationship. And when de Blasio won on a mandate, similarly, of three things — end stop-and-frisk, tax the rich to fund universal pre-K — he needed Albany for two and three. And when he got there, he found a governor that was not interested at all in taxing the rich, and through his partnership and the leadership of the legislature, he was able to put Cuomo in a position where Cuomo found hundreds of millions of dollars in the general fund to make this problem go away.

And that goes back to the fact that I’m not trying to win as one man crossing the finish line on June 24. I’m trying to win as someone with a mandate specifically about these three issues. And I want people to know that when they vote for me, they’re voting for these issues. So that when elected and I go to Albany, it's clear to everyone that I'm fighting for these things and that the votes that they see across New York City are not necessarily die-hard for Zohran specifically as an individual, but are die hard for freezing the rent, for making buses fast and free, and for bringing universal child care.

NYC Budget / Housing / Rent Freeze / Funding Policy Proposals

Liena Zagare
If elected, you would inherit [Adams’] budget. Where do you see the biggest disconnect, and how would you sort of go about trying to modify it, if at all?

Zohran Mamdani
I think the biggest disconnect is that Adams, especially through the OMB [Office of Management and Budget], has sought to create an artificial sense of precarity around city finances. And as the mayor, you have an immense power in putting forward the context that people are going to debate how the money should be spent. And Adams artificially reduces that amount of money, therefore forcing people to fight over scraps for many months that then find out at the end there's actually more money than we anticipated. And this isn’t wholly unique to Adams, we see it in Albany as well where the governor's estimates of revenue are quite regularly outpaced by the actual amounts the year later. But Adams does take it to a new level.

What I would do is to stop playing these kinds of budget games and to make it clear to New Yorkers that they need not expend hours of labor, of time, of anxiety towards fighting for an amount of money they've been told is the maximum they could win, when in fact, there is a far larger pot. And I would also instruct the OMB to continue to be fiscally prudent, but to understand that its mission is also to be honest, to be accurate, and to ensure that agencies can actually staff up.

Because what I’ve been hearing from countless city workers is how OMB, under Jacques Jiha, has been an impediment to their ability to attract the best and brightest of talent because they will extend job offers and then OMB will then force them to retract that offer, even though it has prior approved that very offer. And if you’re a person looking for a job, and you're forced to wait for two, three, four, five, six months, you are going to go to another job.

What we need to do is make it as easy as possible for the best and the brightest across the city to work for the city, and that’s what I’m going to do.

Ben Smith
Is there anything you would spend less money on?

Zohran Mamdani
I would spend less money on the NYPD communications department.

Ben Smith
I saw that in your release, but this is a huge city. That’s a gimmick. That’s five dollars. It is about six or seven people.

Zohran Mamdani
It’s about 80-plus people.

Juan Manuel Benítez
Have you looked at the city budget carefully to fund those huge proposals that you are putting forward, like free buses, no cost for childcare, and also freezing rent-stabilized apartments? You are saying that sometimes you might have to subsidize those landlords that need to make repairs. So where is that money? You say “tax the rich,” that’s going to be pretty hard. It will be really hard, no matter what governor you have there, to pass some sort of tax increase. So where are you finding the money so you can fulfill those really direct promises you’re making in your commercials, like “I’ll make this free for you”?

Zohran Mamdani
I want to go through each one of them. And truly, if you don't feel that I’ve answered it, I want to keep going until I’ve answered it.

To be a little more specific about larger-scale dollar numbers, and then I'll go to your question, I also believe that we need to bring down the NYPD’s near billion-dollar overtime. I think that we need to eliminate that overtime. I think that we need to disband the Strategic Response Group. I also believe that we need to cancel the proposal to build what has been dubbed “Cop City.”

Now these are different proposals that I’m putting forward that would save the city hundreds of millions, more than a billion dollars.

Ben Smith
So all the money to fund everything else would come from the NYPD?

Zohran Mamdani
No, that’s not what I'm saying. I’m just providing you with larger scale dollar numbers, in relation to —

Ben Smith
The [NYPD] press office — we can all sympathize — but it just seems silly.

Zohran Mamdani
The point of highlighting the press office is more to say that there is somehow always money for certain things and never money for other things. Now New York City’s budget, we’re looking at a budget that is between, what, $114 billion to $117 billion let’s say.

Harry Siegel
How much of that comes from the feds?

Zohran Mamdani
A substantial number. I’ve seen estimates of a little under 10% coming from the feds. I think there’s a much larger proportion of Albany’s money that is coming from the feds.

Harry Siegel
If that money goes away, right? You’re talking about artificial austerity with Adams and you’re talking about a bigger pie. If there’s significantly less money coming into New York City and New York State from Washington, are there things that need to be cut? What are your priorities for when spending needs to be protected and also still needs to go up? How does that work?

Zohran Mamdani
Well, what order do you guys want me to answer the questions?

Ben Max
Talk about where you would potentially find savings in the budget. Because it’s all connected. It might be a reduction in federal funding that's forcing you to do that.

Zohran Mamdani
Look, let’s go through this. With the city budget, and I say this as someone who deeply believes in the need for government to provide relief in working-class New Yorkers’ lives. And often, what that looks like is an expansion of what government capacity currently is. I also know, for most New Yorkers, what they've seen is, especially under Adams, the expansion of any agency has often been arm in arm with the expansion of patronage appointments in those agencies.

And I would take a very hard look throughout the entirety of the budget to understand who is actually working for the City of New York and who is being paid a favor for having worked with Eric Adams for decades — and to make sure that every single dollar is being spent appropriately. Because I think one of the worst things for someone who believes, as I do, in the necessity of government fulfilling its mandate to make lives easier for people, is ineffective, inefficient government, and you have to take that head on.

Now, I also think that it is a little premature to outline what cuts I would be willing to make that I wouldn't make otherwise in anticipation of federal freezes. However, I would also be prepared to understand that these are the ways in which we would need to be ready for a Donald Trump-style assault that we saw just a few days ago. And I think part of it is also being willing to, at the same moment as that attack is made, we respond immediately with a clear message to New Yorkers — and to Americans, because of the level of this platform, of this position — about what that cut actually means.

Too often when Donald Trump takes action of the like that he just took, it is framed as him fulfilling a mandate of finally bringing government to account, when, in fact, what it means is denying millions of people healthcare, denying millions of people frankly even the ability to give birth in a hospital. And I think being willing to have that fight in public. Because what we saw under Donald Trump’s first presidency is there’s far more respect for someone who fights back than someone who simply relents, and hopes that by doing so the cuts will be less than they were.

And then I'll go to the question about Albany and where the money is. Of the three proposals that you highlighted, freezing the rent does not cost money from the city. Now the point that I have highlighted is that there will be landlords, as there are today, who are saying, “By freezing my ability to raise the rent, you are going to force me to not be able to make repairs.” There are a few things that I would say to that. The first is, in a recent budget, we increased the ability of — we doubled the amount of money that landlords could extract from tenants under the basis of Individual Apartment Improvements. I voted against that because I have found that to be a program riddled with fraud. We've seen millions of dollars where landlords have used that as an excuse to just extract more money from tenants under the guise of improvements.

Second, there is a city program that allows landlords to receive subsidies if they show their books and they cannot match things up. Now only one landlord has applied to that program and I believe part of that is because doing so requires them to open up their books and it’s much easier to have a public debate where you are crying about the impacts on your finances without having to actually showcase what are your books and how are these numbers matching up? Because what we've seen is many landlords of rent-stabilized buildings, not all but many, have also tried to take advantage of that system at many different times. So I would separate that out.

Ben Smith
On that one, would you also freeze the salaries of building workers? That’s part of that system, that’s a chunk of the costs.

Zohran Mamdani
What I believe the city has the power to do is through the Rent Guidelines Board. And then you freeze the rent. I think what is implicit in what you're saying is that if you’re doing so, there are knock-on effects. But here's the thing. So often we've been told that the rent has to go up because the costs are going up. And what we've seen is that the decisions of the Rent Guidelines Board are naked political reflections of the mayors that are in office, and they are not directly connected to inflation. They are not directly connected to cost even. And when the Rent Guidelines Board in their own data last year found that for landlords who owned at least one unit of rent-stabilized housing, their income was double the rate of their expenses. It is a place where there is room for relief, whereas the median household income of rent-stabilized tenants is $60,000.

Josh Greenman
You’re living in rent-stabilized housing.

Zohran Mamdani
Yes.

Josh Greenman
Do you need a rent freeze?

Zohran Mamdani
I think what we should be fighting for is the vast majority of people who are living in those apartments. If I was able to put in a rent freeze, I wouldn’t be in a rent-stabilized apartment. I would actually be on the Upper East Side, in a new apartment.

Josh Greenman
But should we means test? Should we have any way of ensuring that people who are better off who live in rent-stabilized housing don't get those benefits?

Zohran Mamdani
I am someone who is deeply skeptical of means testing. Now I’ll tell you a little bit about myself, and then I’ll go into the answer.

When I moved into this apartment, I was making $47,000 a year and at the time I was working as a foreclosure prevention housing counselor for Chhaya CDC in Richmond Hill and Jackson Heights and I was looking for an apartment that I could afford on my own. I found that in this apartment. I didn't know it was rent-stabilized. I found it through StreetEasy. In that time since, I’ve become an Assembly member and I'm now able to pay for that apartment and able to also move out of that apartment and I plan on doing so. I don’t plan on living in that apartment for perpetuity.

I do think, however, with means-tested programs, what we found — take the MTA, for example: We have Fair Fares, something that I’ve supported, it provides relief, and something that I also believe does not get close to the target of eligibility that it has. Right now, maybe 40% of eligible New Yorkers are enrolled in Fair Fares. The MTA has said if they get to 50% they’d consider it a success.

When we made that one bus route free in each borough, we were told that you're subsidizing this for rich people, it's universal. We found the vast majority of New Yorkers were making $28,000 or less who were new riders to this program. If you’re making that amount of money, you’re eligible for Fair Fares. Only 14% of them were enrolled in Fair Fares.

And what that speaks to is that if you ask working-class New Yorkers, many of whom have been failed by a bureaucracy, to jump through many more hoops to get relief from that bureaucracy, you will lose about half, or in this case even more than 80% of your target population. Versus, if you make it universal, the benefits are not just fiscal. They’re also public safety. They’re also peace of mind.

When I got on the Bx18A on the first day we made it free, I was sitting next to the bus driver and he was telling me, “This is the first day that I can just drive from stop to stop, and that’s all I’m worried about.” And as he was telling me that, a nurse got on the bus and she reached for her MetroCard. He said, “It’s free.” She said, “What do you mean?” He said, “It’s free. This is free for the year.” And then she just danced down the bus to her seat. Because for her and for so many New Yorkers, when's the last time they got a break? When’s the last time they felt that someone was actually looking out for them, making their life more affordable? And this is someone who’s doing a public service—

Ben Smith
Just to sort of keep moving. Do you want to finish answering this whole question?

Ben Max
I think you still haven’t answered Juan Manuel’s question — how do you overhaul the tax structure in New York going through Albany?

Zohran Mamdani
Yes, to the second and third points. Free buses cost around $650 million to $750 million a year. Universal child care, we’ve seen estimates that it can cost at least about $5 billion a year. As you said, it is very difficult to get governors in Albany to fight for or agree to increase taxes on any New Yorker.

I would say that it was even more difficult under Andrew Cuomo. And in my first year as an Assembly member, I was part of the fight that won around $4 billion in new taxes, through raising taxes on the wealthiest New Yorkers and the most profitable businesses doing business across New York State. So I do believe that there is possibility here.

Now the proposal that I've put forward, I think the bulk of these programs do need to be funded by Albany. Historically, we've seen how that works. I think that that can come primarily through a corporate tax. A lot of the time I'm talking about these ideas, the necessity for more revenue, it's framed as if it is inconceivable, not only in New York but in the Tri-State Area. However, New Jersey has a corporate tax rate a number of percentage points higher than that of New York. If we were to match that of our regional neighbors, we would be able to pay for this entire agenda. The corporate tax rate proposal that has been put forward would raise about $7 billion per year.

Now, typically, when you talk about a corporate tax rate, the rejoinder will be [that] these companies are simply going to move out of New York State. But the nature of tax law in New York State when it comes to corporations is that they need only do business in New York State to be subject to that kind of a tax, not be headquartered here.

Separately to that, I believe the city has a part to play in funding some of the pieces of this platform. The MTA is a state agency. Typically, when I talk about making buses free, what I will hear is, “this person doesn't know,” “this is the MTA, the MTA’s a state agency.” The city already subsidizes the MTA about $750 million for MTA buses as part of an agreement that happened under Bloomberg. Mike Bloomberg was so passionate about the extension of the 7 train line into Hudson Yards that he used city funding to pay more than a billion dollars to construct that subway station, a responsibility that’s typically under the auspices of the state.

The point of this is to say that there’s room for creativity. There’s room for commitment.

Now, how would you find that extra money in New York City? One way, I think, is collecting the money that is owed to the city. The city is owed more than $800 million in uncollected fines from landlords across New York City. We are in a city right now, where The New York Times has identified the largest landlord as Columbia University, closely followed by New York University. Institutions that are technically educational but whose reach has gone far beyond that of an educational institution and who currently are exempt on more than $320 million in property taxes. You know, I hope that the Knicks win a championship this year, but we’ve been giving [Knicks and Madison Square Garden owner James] Dolan almost — more than a billion dollars in property tax exemptions for decades.

Nicole Gelinas
Why hasn’t the state legislature successfully removed that Dolan exception? The argument used to be that the Republicans are in charge of the [State] Senate. That’s no longer true. Why haven’t you been able to convince your fellow lawmakers to enact this bill? Very simple to do.

Zohran Mamdani
I think part of it is because — it is very difficult when you are one member of the legislature. It takes an incredible amount of effort to move anything through, I would say. It would be extremely useful if we had someone with a larger bully pulpit — say, for example, the mayor of New York — standing up and calling for these kinds of things. Because right now, what we have is not even widespread acknowledgement that this exemption exists.

You were pointing out that previously, an explanation given for why not is Republicans. There is actually bipartisan support for a lot of these kinds of proposals. I sit in front of you as someone who has been attacked by The New York Post and likely will be attacked in the future, but also someone whose legislation has been endorsed by The New York Post, namely to repeal Columbia and NYU’s property tax exemptions and redirect that funding to CUNY. That is something that there is a new pathway for, and Curtis Sliwa ran for mayor on the Republican platform calling for that same kind of exemption to be ended. So I think that there's a lot of ingredients here to actually break this through.

Ben Max
Very briefly, can you define a Program to Eliminate the Gap [PEG], and just tell us what you make of that use of a budgetary tool by a mayor?

Zohran Mamdani
I think PEGs are something which cannot be disconnected from the obvious decline in city services. What we have right now is not only an inability to fill the positions that are budgeted for, but a desire at almost every turn to constrict the scope and the size of those agencies. Unless, of course, there's someone that Eric Adams is friends with.

You can feel this as a New Yorker. You can feel the breakdown of much of our city. Sometimes it is in ways that are not even obvious. I was at one of my favorite restaurants in Astoria. I was having biryani, and I was very excited, having looked forward to it all day, and then the cockroach came by my table. And as one does, I thought, “What does Eric Adams have to do with this breakdown in this moment?”

And the truth is that under Adams, we’ve seen inspections of restaurants go down to about 66% whereas in the final year of de Blasio, it was about 99%. And when the city steps back from ensuring — in this example, that there isn’t the contraction of food-borne illness through a violation of cleanliness standards — but in many examples, of ensuring that life across New York City is living up to what is not only legally required, but also what we consider to be of New York City, these are the kinds of results we see. So I think that —

Josh Greenman
But is that about money, or is that about reinvigorating the government? We’ve seen the size of the city budget increase year after year after year. So do we need a larger government? Do we need more government?

Zohran Mamdani
I think there is, very possibly — there’s a lot of money that's currently being spent, that Eric Adams has chosen to spend in his administration, that is not actually fulfilling a lot of what I’m talking about. And that goes back to the commitment before to take on patronage and to ensure that we are actually searching for quality and qualifications and not connections. And I think that what we need to do is to live up to this very kind of program and to take that kind of look to it.

Education

Akash Mehta
I want to ask about one area of seemingly inefficient spending. New York State spends more money per pupil on schools than any other state. In New York City, it’s about $30,000 per pupil per year. Yet, at least on measurable outcomes, like test scores and graduation rates, we are in the middle of the pack. What do you think explains that disconnect, and how would you go about trying to get more bang for the buck in education?

Zohran Mamdani
As the next mayor of New York City, I would be proud of investing in New York City public school students. And at the same time, I think we desperately need better outcomes. I think that sometimes those outcomes, as you were pointing to, are not always directly related to additional investment. They also have to do with prioritization. They also have to do with follow-through.

I'll give you an example. There's a pilot program right now in the Bronx that doesn't have that much of a fiscal cost, but the benefits are immense. It’s called “Every Child and Family is Known.” It's a pilot program that speaks to what to me is one of the greatest stains on our public school system — which is that one in eight public school students is homeless.

This program connects New York City public school students and their families who live in shelters with employees of the public school system, and requires that the child meet with the public school staff member once a day in person. And that the staff member meets with the family once a week in person. That kind of a connection and prioritization has had immense outcomes for students, not only retention in those classes, but also the connection between them and school-life, that of their families.

I also think when we’re talking about education, we also cannot disconnect it from what's going on in students’ lives outside. There are decisions that Adams has made — particularly thinking about the 30- and 60-day shelter limits — that have not only been cruel and unnecessary, but also been ones that have completely disconnected so many students from the schools that some of them have been flourishing in. I've spoken to public school staff, teachers who have talked about the fact that they've had students who have been thriving in a setting and then after three, four months have had to leave. What do we think that does for these kinds of outcomes?

And obviously some of the critiques you’re making are longstanding. They’re not only as per the last few years, but I do think that some of this is indicative of: is this a priority for you? How do you actually transform these schools? And also what we have right now is, in Albany, we’ve taken attempts at changing what it means to be a public school student, what it means to be a public school teacher, namely through class-size reduction. And what we've had is Adams trying to find every which way he can to slow-roll the implementation of this.

I think that this is a mandate that must be fulfilled, and it is one that we must take on as a responsibility to work with Albany to find the funding to make this something that is not just each school is opting in if they can, but rather making this—

Josh Greenman
Yes or no on literacy curriculum? Do you like Adams’ literacy curriculum overhaul?

Zohran Mamdani
I like aspects of it. I like aspects of it. I think there is more to dig into. I’ve heard — I’ve heard a range of opinions that I’m interested in digging into on it.

Advisors / Relationship to DSA

Christina Greer
So you said mayoral knowledge has limits. I’d like to know, who are your advisors and allies as a legislator and who are your advisors and allies as you run for mayor?

Zohran Mamdani
As a legislator? I’ll start there, and hold me to account to get to the mayor piece as well.

I have worked closely with a number of other elected officials who were elected at the same time as I was. There was a wave of about more than 20 of us that came in at that time, and I've worked very closely with them, namely, a lot of other socialists who were elected at that time.

I’ve also worked closely with — at the time, much more of an overlap, now, a little less of a geographic overlap — the deputy [State Senate] majority leader, Mike Gianaris. He is someone that I’ve worked quite closely with when I talk about “Fix the MTA.” When I talk about these fights, this is one that was done in tandem with him, and would not have been possible without him.

And I think that there are a number of legislators, some of whom I think you might expect and some of whom might go beyond the obvious. One of the legislators that I've found to be the most impressive that I’ve worked with, beyond the electeds who I was campaigning alongside, is Amanda Septimo, an assemblywoman from the Bronx who has been incredibly effective, incredibly knowledgeable, and someone who has continued to push Albany to respond with the urgency required for what's going on across New York City.

Now, as [a candidate for] mayor, I’ve sought to work with those who I've worked with for many years and those whose work I've admired. But I've also intentionally taken time to meet with individuals, commissioners from previous administrations — I won't name them here, because I think there is an interest in having these kinds of meetings privately.

But I say that to say that we can never pretend to have a monopoly on knowledge or approach. And while I have critiques of any mayoral administration that has been proceeding to varying degrees, I truly seek to build on the legacy of almost each one of them, save for, I would say, Rudy Giuliani.

And it’s important to sit down at a table and listen to the people who are tasked with implementing so many of the ideas that I look on with admiration about and it's been incredibly helpful for me in understanding the feasibility, the network that is required, the kind of talent that would be interested and available in being part of this administration.

Christina Greer
So do you not want to say any of your advisors who sort of help you think through issues — on transportation and education?

Zohran Mamdani
When it comes to transportation, I’ll give you an example. I continue to work closely with Mike Gianaris. I have also worked with John Samuelsen, who’s the head of TWU International. I’ve worked closely with him on the question of free buses and the question of transit. I’ve also worked very closely with Riders Alliance — Betsy [Plum], Danny [Pearlstein], these are true titans of public transit.

And with the MTA. When I talk about free buses, the MTA has often not been supportive of that because what they are focused on is, how do they find funding for tomorrow to pay for today. And I understand where they're coming from, but I always want to make sure that my battles are battles that are built on a shared understanding of the numbers that they are accurate. And so when I talk about these numbers, when I've talked about them in the past, they are born out of meetings where I sit down with the MTA and we go through cost analysis. Because what I don’t want to do is win and talk about a number that is far below the actual cost, and then get into office and not know how to actually deliver on it. As opposed to telling people, “This is what it costs. It's ambitious, but it's also possible.” And the only reason I have that number is because the MTA will sit with me and I will go through these numbers with them.

Christina Greer
You’ve been an active member of the DSA [Democratic Socialists of America] as well. Where will they factor into your cabinet, your kitchen cabinet? Will they have official roles?

Zohran Mamdani
They are a part of the coalition and will continue to be a part of a coalition that is ever-expanding. I'm proud to have been endorsed by the most organizations of any campaign thus far. Organizations that represent more than 70,000 New Yorkers, [DSA and others] as well as UAW Region 9A, a labor union that endorsed us a few months ago. And I think that, you know, this coalition is one that will reflect the breadth of New Yorkers that are fighting—

Ben Smith
Do you think you can be a successful mayor without alienating the DSA? Do you think you can be a successful mayor without ultimately alienating the leftmost core of your base?

Zohran Mamdani
I think I can be a successful mayor without alienating that base, because I think that what I'm running on is the distillation of what has motivated so many people in that base, as you've described it, to become politically active. Which is, how do we make the city more affordable for working-class people? How do we put the working class at the center of our politics? And I think that Bernie Sanders, in many ways, is the inspiration for not just myself, but for so many—

Ben Smith
The DSA and the Sanders campaign actually got very tangled up in identity politics issues which tore those groups apart over the last few years. There’s now a debate on the left about whether that was a horrible mistake or whether that's the future direction. What's your view on that question?

Zohran Mamdani
On the question of identity politics?

Ben Smith
Do you think the DSA made mistakes in its internal fights about identity politics? Do you think the left in general went too far and is responsible for some of the backlash we're seeing now?

Zohran Mamdani
I don't think I’d—

Ben Smith
You’re familiar with these arguments?

Zohran Mamdani
Yeah, no I'm familiar with them. I think in this campaign, there are aspects of my identity that make me stand out. I am the first Muslim or even South Asian elected official to run for mayor. I would be one of only a few immigrant mayors in New York City [history]. But this campaign is not about my identity. I have acknowledged those things and I have spoken about the need to foreground who the politics is actually for and what we are actually fighting for. And I think in many ways that has been the most successful parts of left interventions in electoral politics.

And I often think about the way that New York City is caricatured in a political landscape sense. We often talk about Staten Island as if it is the home of Trump Republicanism — that Democrats on Staten Island are just people waiting to vote for a Republican in a general election. And yet what we found is when there was a message of economic inequality and the necessity of taking on a system that has left people behind, 42% of that voting base came out for Bernie Sanders in 2016 [in the Democratic primary].

I think that there’s a true ability to go beyond the corridors that we’ve been told, “This is where a progressive lives, and this is where a progressive dies.” And there are different aspects of the same message that appeal to many, many people, as long as you don’t ask them to stand up and subscribe to every single thing that you might say and every single thing you might believe, and that you're respectful when you’re faced with that disagreement.

Buses / Crime / Mental Health / Involuntary Commitment

Ben Smith
Nicole, we talked about buses earlier. Do you want to trigger the bus conversation?

Zohran Mamdani
More bus conversation? This is incredible.

Ben Smith
On a more concrete note here. Away from ideology, toward buses.

Zohran Mamdani
It’s the same thing.

Nicole Gelinas
You mentioned Michelle Wu. But even as she reaches the end of her initial term, she stuck to her first three pilot bus lines. She has not expanded this to a universal program, because she faces the same situation we have here, that this is a state-funded service. Can you name another large global city, comparable to New York, that runs a successful free bus system?

Zohran Mamdani
Look, I think — our push was also inspired by the results we saw in Kansas City. And I know what you’d probably say about the global nature of Kansas City, but I would not say that —

Nicole Gelinas
Kansas City, like many American cities, is a city where it is mostly poor people use the bus, which is fine, but a very different situation from New York, where it's more universal.

Zohran Mamdani
I think I’d push a little bit on your premise. What we found is that the most working-class ridership of any public transit is found on the bus. We’ve seen salaries that are — an average salary, I think that’s in the $30,000s for a bus rider.

I think there are examples also in Europe, where we see free transit, whether it’s currently being embarked on or it’s about to be, and I remember sitting there reading the paper, The New York Times article about seniors in South Korea and what free transit meant for them and how it allowed them to re-explore their city. I think that we need to end this era of this reverse-New-York exceptionalism, where we refuse to learn from the successes of cities across the world and also be willing to build on those successes and showcase something else. Because, I think, Nicole, the thing I would outline is that the successes we saw in this pilot, I truly believe they are scalable. And I also think that the pilot hasn't even yet gotten to its full potential. Because one of the things that will make buses faster — average speed right now, about eight miles an hour, slowest in the country, parts of Manhattan, where we are right now, five-and-a-half miles an hour. That's the speed I was walking from the train to this meeting.

A free bus means you can do all-door boarding. The MTA promised about a decade ago that they were going to embark on all-door boarding. They didn’t do so out of fears of what it would do for fare collection. They only do so on Select buses, such as the M60, which is a great bus. But what we can do, what Michelle Wu’s pilot program showed, is that dwell-time at bus stops can go down by 23% if you’re using all-door boarding.

We mandated the MTA to do it, for the pilot. I got on those buses on the first day. I got on them a few months after. I got on them towards the end. A lot of it was not all-door boarding.That's where I also think this can change. And it is something that has been suggested even by mayors like Bloomberg. Bloomberg at one point talked about the possibility of making crosstown buses free. So this is a vision that has been percolating.

Nicole Gelinas
And on the assaults, many people responded to you and said, if somebody is going to assault the bus driver because the bus driver tells them to pay the fare, that person has deeper problems. You're not solving the problems by avoiding that particular interaction. We’ve seen the crime on the subways goes far beyond fare-based crimes, very serious crimes that often start with evading the fare. What’s your answer to the increase in homicides and assaults that we’ve seen on the subway system?

Ben Smith
And actually just to go back, is that what you meant, that the buses are safer because you just don't ask for the fare and then you don't have the fight over it?

Zohran Mamdani
When we launched the campaign, a leader in TWU Local 100, JP Patafio, said that the fare box was the site of about 50% of all assaults.

Ben Smith
So you are saying that the reason there’s violence on the buses was because somebody asked them to pay?

Zohran Mamdani
No, that's not what I’m saying. I'm saying that this has been identified by labor leaders. And that the thing that I'm most interested in — because I think a lot of these responses are also just attempts to relitigate the same ideological fights — is outcomes.

What is a policy that we’ve taken recently that has shown a 38.9% reduction in crime, separate from this one? What New Yorkers deserve is a better outcome. And I think too often what we have is horrific incidents where a bus driver is attacked for whatever reason.

And frankly, bus drivers, even now, are not asking for that fare. They are not instructed to ask for that fare. So it’s not about ending that interaction, because that interaction doesn’t take place right now. And then the response often in Albany is, let's take a criminal penalty that is X amount of years and increase it by two or three years. Versus the approach we took, which has an incredible reduction in crime. Now back to your question, Nicole, can you restate it one more time, so I make sure that I'm answering it.

Nicole Gelinas
You said earlier that Adams asking for changes to criminal justice reforms, this is bad for minorities. Applying that to the increase in crime we’ve seen on the subway, many of these incidents stem from — you have a person who has been arrested multiple, multiple times and released on no-bail, released on low bail, or sent out of the mental health system over and over and over again. What would you do to address the disorder and crime situation on the subway, if you do not believe in returning to some semblance of the criminal justice system that we had before 2018?

Zohran Mamdani
I think, part of what I was saying earlier is that I've been there in those rooms every year when we are told by Mayor Adams that this specific change will deliver the exact outcome he wants. And that change occurs, over the objections of many legislators, myself included. And then he comes back the next year with a different change promising the same kind of result, and again — and so my point is that we haven't seen—

Nicole Gelinas
But Adams’ inability to know and consistently ask for what he wants is different from saying, should people be released over and over on no-bail—

Zohran Mamdani
So let me and I’ll get to the premise of your question—

Nicole Gelinas
For example, we had someone the other day who groped a woman, allegedly, in a midtown subway system, immediately released on no-bail and allegedly attempted to murder another woman by pushing her in front of the train. So someone who is violent toward women, made that very clear, but New York City let him go back into the subway.

Zohran Mamdani
That was a horrific incident and, it is — I’m just thankful that somehow that woman has survived, that he pushed her and that she was able to actually hit the train and came back onto the platform, and — but it is horrific, and it’s unacceptable.

And I think what you are speaking about is this nature of the revolving door. And I think it speaks to something larger. I want to distinguish the conversation we're having from that that we were having before, because I do believe subways are distinct from buses in many ways specific to these kinds of questions, especially.

What we have right now is an approach that is at best a patchwork. And what we are seeing is that there is a horrific incident far too regularly. We could be speaking about any one of a number of incidents that we have both read about in the last few weeks that are — that are horrific.

I think of a few things. The first is I think that we need to create a new system of mental health responders and homelessness outreach that is led by a team trained exclusively for that purpose, building on the successful models that we’ve seen in Eugene, in Olympia, in Denver, where you task people with a responsibility that they are actually trained for.

Right now, what we are doing is putting a new task on the police, very regularly — one that they often are either not trained for, or not interested in fulfilling. And when you ask New Yorkers, do you want to see someone on your platform, oftentimes the only way that question is framed is, do you want to see a police officer on the platform, or are you happy with things as they are?

“Things as they are” is not acceptable. When you actually dig further into those surveys, you find that a majority of New Yorkers would prefer a team that is trained specifically for that task—

Nicole Gelinas
Like SCOUT.

Zohran Mamdani
But I think that there have been limits in the successes of the approaches we have made. And I'm thinking more of what we've seen in these other cities, where the approach is far more extensive.

And what I also think that it would do is take what is another blight in our public transit system, which is the immense vacancies of commercial units across the system. You know, I remember — I moved to the city when I was seven years old and I recall taking the 1 train to the 2 train and transferring at Times Square. And I would always go by what was then a record store. They'd be selling CDs. They'd be selling headphones. You do that today, it's vacant. You will find so many of the most bustling stations across New York City have vacancies in these commercial units.

Josh Greenman
Can we broaden this beyond just—

Zohran Mamdani
Could I just finish this one and then I’ll go on to you? I believe we need to repurpose those units to actually provide services to New Yorkers who are currently being denied them and have no idea as to where they can actually find them. And I think that repurposing those spaces in tandem with these kinds of teams.

Last thing. I was reading an article in City & State. There were two authors, one of whom I actually had known and had met in a number of political meetings years ago. He spoke about how for the last two years, he had been hospitalized over 20 times and had been sleeping on the subway system. And this was quite jarring for me, as someone who sat next to this person at meetings in 2020 and 2019. And he spoke about the thing that transformed him, that allowed him to go beyond that revolving door, was a clubhouse model that he had found at Fountain House. And we need to have these kinds of models that have been shown to be effective-—

Josh Greenman
But felony assaults have been rising citywide and the subways are a tiny fraction of that problem. Rising felony assault citywide is not driven by people with mental illness, primarily, it’s driven by a crime problem. What is the strategy to improve the NYPD response to that crime problem and otherwise bend that curve?

Zohran Mamdani
When you're looking at CompStat from 2023 to 2024 you see increases in, as you've said, felony assaults, you also see increases in rapes. And these are horrific, these are things we have to take on. I was quite taken by the article in Vital City that was talking about looking at crime and stepping back in an analysis, not only on a year-to-year basis but also over decades, and one thing that it identified was that crimes that had a financial motive — theft, burglary, larceny — have fallen dramatically over the years and crimes that are borne more out of anger, crimes that are also far more random, have risen.

Josh Greenman
So we have limited time. Get to the how. How do you attack it?

Zohran Mamdani
I think there are a few things. One is that right now, we are tasking the NYPD with so many different responsibilities. I believe we need to take the NYPD out of traffic enforcement, for example. We need to ensure that response, responses to mental health crises and to homelessness are not the responsibility of the NYPD.

And I think that some of these kinds of steps can also ensure that we see greater clearance rates in these specific categories. Because if you’re looking back at that article in Vital City, you see the clearance rates are abysmal across a number of these categories, and that is an immense crisis across our city.

Alyssa Katz
So going back to the subway teams that you're talking about. We have had for a long time homelessness teams from the Department of Homeless Services and from agencies going in there, and the key issue is that the services are voluntary and we also do not have, really, involuntary commitment. There is a bill that I think Hochul is now backing, that Adams has been pushing for a couple of sessions, that would make it much easier to involuntarily commit somebody. What's your position on that bill and how do you relate that to what's going on in the subway?

Zohran Mamdani
I think that involuntary commitment should be the last resort that a city takes, and fundamentally I'm driven by outcomes. There was a recent study that I read that put a large question as to whether the benefits of this are as they are stated or whether this is simply a policy that has now come back in vogue as we've seen the inability to implement so many of the alternatives over the last few years.

I think, one other point I would make is homelessness across our subway system is an incredibly — it it is something that we have to tackle. It is also something that, if we're actually looking at the numbers, there are not as many New Yorkers as is often conceived that are actually living on our subway platforms. We’re seeing, you know, about 4,000 or so New Yorkers who are living on our subway platforms. And when we look at the inefficiency of government to respond to applications from those very New Yorkers for supportive housing — like we saw an article come out that said of those eligible, the Adams administration only got back to 20% —

Alyssa Katz
That was in thecity.nyc

Zohran Mamdani
And I encourage everyone to go to thecity.nyc. And whenever we post a screenshot of an article, we always post the link. We try to.

Alyssa Katz
What’s your position on the bill?

Zohran Mamdani
I’m skeptical. I’m skeptical because I think we have to do more than just that which feels good. That which actually accomplishes what it is that we're seeking to. I want to drill down on what will actually deliver a very different subway system, a very different New York City, and I think a lot of that has to do with putting New Yorkers into housing. I think Housing First is an incredibly important approach. And I also think actually having people who are tasked and trained and invested to do these kinds of responsiveness that I was speaking about earlier.

Israel / Protests

Ben Smith
I want to get to Harry. We have five minutes to resolve the conflict in the Middle East.

Zohran Mamdani
I was gonna aim for three, so glad to hear it.

Harry Siegel
You’ve talked a lot about the mayor as a messenger and using that bully pulpit. You’ve also talked a good deal about the state of Israel being engaged in a genocide. So relating all that back to the NYPD and maybe public safety and order, how would you handle protesters who take the streets, occupy buildings — as acts of civil disobedience, say — or who vandalize homes and businesses with red triangles or painted slogans and the like?

Zohran Mamdani
The mayor has an immense platform. This mayor has used that platform to deny humanity to many people. He has used that platform to justify the killing of children. He has used that platform to refute calls for a ceasefire. He has used that platform and the policies that come with it also to send in a militarized police force into educational institutions such as Columbia and CUNY.

And for a long time, the story that was told about that decision was that it was one that came at the behest of Columbia. And recently, at a town hall, the mayor phrased it that he was begging them to send these officers onto campus.

And I think that as Democrats, we need to be consistent. That if we say that guns make elementary schools more unsafe — middle schools, high schools — why do we believe that sending them onto an institution of higher education is appropriate? Especially when we saw that that decision led to a number of students being hospitalized, as well as an officer discharging their weapon, which is something that brought us closer to the violence than anything that had preceded it.

And I think that what I will do as a mayor is to apply a politics of humanity. One that extends it to each and every New Yorker and each and every person that they see themselves in, as opposed to selectively deciding who deserves the right to live — to life, to safety, to justice — and who doesn’t. We deserve to have a mayor who's consistent and that’s what I will be.

Nicole Gelinas
Was it a mistake for the DSA to hold its pre-planned rally on October 8, 2023?

Zohran Mamdani
The DSA did not hold that rally.

Nicole Gelinas
They were a participant.

Zohran Mamdani
There was a tweet that was sent out. And that was a tweet that the DSA apologized for a few days after. There are aspects of the organization that are subject to immense democratic processes, such as the endorsement for my candidacy for mayor. And then there are tweets which were not, and I think we saw that reflected in the statement that was made after.

Harry Siegel
You said that as mayor, you’d arrest the Israeli prime minister, Netanyahu. How would you do that?

Zohran Mamdani
Look, I was asked that question in the context of an unrelenting genocide where the International Criminal Court had put forward a warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu and we had seen Benjamin Netanyahu come to New York City and proudly have a photo taken of him in a room in Manhattan ordering strikes on Lebanon. That was part of a larger policy that the former CIA director described as war crimes. I think that we need to see a city that is in line with its values. And while I understand what you may say, the United States is—

Harry Siegel
I’m just asking the how. If he comes to visit the UN and the warrant still stands, though there’s a ceasefire, how would you arrest him?

Zohran Mamdani
In the same manner that we honor warrants that are made otherwise. I think also, fundamentally, there have been instances where Netanyahu has not made a trip, such as to memorials, because of fear of that warrant being honored. It’s not a question solely of what will you do if that person comes? It’s also making clear that that person is not welcome in a city such as this, and they make decisions on the basis of that, which is what we saw when Netanyahu refused to make that trip.

“Why You” / Rank The Mayors

Juan Manuel Benítez
So, anything that voters should know about you? You’re a newcomer. Anything about your family? I mean, your commercials are pretty good quality — someone would think that you’re the son of a filmmaker. So can you tell us something about you, beyond politics and policy?

Harry Siegel
You have offered yourself as a leap of faith. You’ve talked a lot about pilot programs. You’ve talked a lot about small things that could work. You’ve talked about the left intervening in politics. And you’re saying you want to run New York. And, you know, you're a second-term legislator. How do—

Zohran Mamdani
Third term. Don’t take me down one term!

Harry Siegel
Third, I’m sorry. And you come back [to the Assembly] if this [mayoral run] doesn’t work. But why should New Yorkers take the leap with you? What should they know? What’s this about? There’s a lot of excitement around your campaign with money and organizing.

Zohran Mamdani
When we started this campaign, there were many that treated it as an interesting idea, at best. One that would be a story that would come and go, and we’ve surprised people at almost every turn. We’ve raised $641,000 in the last filing period. We raised it from more donors than every other campaign combined in that same period, and that is a reflection of the fact that New Yorkers are hungry for a different approach to politics in the city.

New Yorkers are hungry for a politics that doesn’t require translation. That doesn’t say “jump through this hoop and then you’ll find that hoop and then over there you’ll find somebody who'll take you to the next hoop.” But in fact, this is a policy. You’re facing a problem with your rent. You’re an 82-year-old woman who comes into my office talking about how you’re going to be evicted. I’m putting forward a policy that is actually going to provide you with relief. We’ve seen that with the rent freeze, with the free buses —

Ben Smith
I think Juan Manuel is asking, why you?

Zohran Mamdani
This campaign is the one that is most focused on a relentless economic agenda of any in the race, and it reflects the fact that New Yorkers across the five boroughs feel left behind by the economic policies of not only this administration, but also of Democratic leadership at large. [Phone alarm goes off.]

Andrew Epstein (Mamdani campaign communications director)
That’s 10 [A.M.]

Zohran Mamdani
And I would say that I’ve really enjoyed this opportunity to meet each and every one of you. I am sorry if I didn’t answer any question to its full extent.

Ben Smith
One more: Best and worst mayor of your lifetime?

Zohran Mamdani
I’ll do you one better. I’ll rank them. Top five. Come on, I’m a reader. I’ll do it as I get up. Best to worst: De Blasio, Dinkins, Bloomberg, Adams, Giuliani — and with that I bid you adieu.